The proportion of time ‘AT’ school Is NOT the same as being ‘IN’ School and other measurement issues

May 21, 2011 at 01:59 (Economy and Me, Education Observations, Uncategorized, What might this person(s) be thinking?)
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/article?f=/c/a/2011/05/20/MN3P1JHC83.DTL

This article was difficult to digest on many levels – some of the comments were hilarious, some were so to the point honest it was like a gunshot going through and out the other side and some demonstrated the absolute magnitude to which people are finally understanding TEACHERS can not control the education of a student when parents are not parenting.

As a tutor, I get to cherry pick the jobs I wish to take on. This is a luxury for me.  I also try to, within reason, keep my fees low so I am available to a wide range of students as there are many students/parents who know the value of an education and the cost of tutoring is beyond their grasp.  Clearly the students who can ‘afford’ me most likely don’t need me.   I interview the student and the parents informally to make sure it is a good fit all the way around and ask some important questions that often stymie parents:  (1) What are your childs goals? (2) What are your goals in 1 week, 1 month, 6 months? (3) Is this tutoring to ‘pass the class’ or is this tutoring to learn, most especially when I am discussing algebra (4) Are you willing to commit to assisting your child schedule their time such that there may be less TV and/or computer time in order to get through the studying? (5) Are you willing to commit to a consistent schedule?  (6) What type of feedback do you wish to have from me? (7) In certain situations I need to ask if the parents want me to meet with the teacher (this is fee intensive although it can have outstanding outcomes with the right family).

If parents seem to not understand questions 3-5, I have to think long and hard if this is a job I wish to take on because at the end of the day, no matter how hard I work, it is not going to be enough to benefit a student I see for two hours a week and so change and improvement is inherent on other factors.  This is shared with parents.  I tell parents my being at their house is not the same as the child being focused in and doing more than the one or two hours of tutoring each week. I explain that tutoring works best when everyone is on board.  Amazingly, only a small amount – say 35-50% of parents get it and so I have the opportunity to work with the cream of the crop of students who (1) want to learn (2) often have learning differences or are differently abled – autism spectrum, ADHD, cochlear implants, ESL, auditory processing, etc. and (3) parents who value education.  At the end of the day, I have a great deal of satisfaction that I did something wonderful to help a child learn.

Believe it or not, most of the parents who hire me are not relatively well to do, relatively uneducated themselves and live modestly  and are not all white or Asian as the stereotype goes.  The difference is these parents WANT their child to succeed and put forth  the effort to work  with me and their child for success to happen.  Am I perfect? No….are there times when things take longer than anyone expected? yes…..Do the students improve? I would say 95% do and when I or the parents do not see success we part ways early enough in the game for the parents to find a different tutor.

All of the above three paragraphs is very different from what happens in a public school classroom where I would be lucky if 35% of the parents are on board in any reasonable way (this means both parents who don’t care and parents who care too much are not in the 35%).  I would be exhilirated if 50% of my students came to school with the intention of learning (both mentally and physically, such as having a good breakfast with protein in it).  Over the top would be if there was a situation where the kid was not ‘kept’ at school and warehoused somehow for part of the day so the school could get the ADA……..this is where the differenc of AT and IN play a huge role and being on board is not always so transparent. So, in the public school system, getting the child to school is only a very minute part of the issue. Engagement is a huge effort and there are some kids, and all teachers know what I mean, that we are thankful don’t show up to school.

None of this is a free pass for parents not to parent, however, it does point a magnifying glass at the large problem of willingness to put in effort and willingness to follow through – this comes from the home.  If OUSD thinks for one minute having the student AT school solves the problem, they are sorely mistaken.  This is not even the real problem.  Until OUSD and every other school district gets to the point of addressing the problem – education is a mind set, there is going to be a chronic lack of success at all schools.  Sometimes having a student AT school merely means they are off the street and being looked after – it does not mean they are learning. It is of great importance that our state superintendent look at the issue at hand, not the issue that merely generates ADA.

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Minding The Data ‘Gap’

February 14, 2011 at 05:36 (Uncategorized)
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http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_shows_the_best_stats_you_ve_ever_seen.html

http://www.gapminder.org/     http://www.gapminder.org/news/education-data-1970-2009/

http://www.aspirepublicschools.org/sites/aspirepublicschools.org/files/Aspire%20McKinsey%20Award%20–%20FINAL.pdf

A friend of mine who tends to consider me the erudite nerd when it comes to reading between the lines, sent me an old TED video clip about data (not only do I worship the simplicity of nature, I find Edward R. Tufte to be the steward of logic in displaying data and information in a way almost anyone can understand).  My friend felt that perhaps Gapminder.org  would soothe my yearnings for ever more clear data.

After listening to Mr. Rosling and viewing the website www.Gapminder.org, I do believe this is the ‘missing link’ all charter schools should be using to display their data.  Since Gapminder allows for  longitudinal studies to be represented AND charter schools love data, this is a match made in heaven.  Surely anything the Swedish do, we as Americans can do…..right? 

So, a challenge to KIPP, Aspire Public Schools, U.S. Department of Education, etc. – take a view of  Gapminder and load in the data.  Inquiring minds want to know.  I am certain everyone would love to know the increase in college graduation rates, especially with so many successful charter schools, what the test scores show from state standards vs. NAEP, how many students from which schools are in which colleges………there is a veritable gold mine out there for grad students.

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Shouldn’t we use data for the intended purpose?

August 23, 2010 at 01:16 (Education Observations, Take Aways, What might this person(s) be thinking?)
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http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/14/local/la-me-teachers-value-20100815

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/05/business/economy/05view.html?hpw

When I first heard about The Los Angeles Times doing investigative reporting regarding student annual test scores and the relationship to teachers ability or perceived lack there of, I was listening to NPR and had to get out of the car for work.  The initial way I heard the details caused a mild sense of both frustration and anxiety and then later, when driving home and not hearing any more about the topic, I began to think there was more to this story, which is why NPR did not say much – they were researching and investigating before they reported more details.

Like NPR, I believe the devil is in the details and how one presents an idea and the anticipated outcomes should also include a peek at the potential unintended consequences.  There are two sides to this issue – neither of which is good in any light and both sides of the problem actually having relatively nothing to do with student education so I decided to to talk about the real issues underlying what is going on in hopes some one, some where will read this blog and a light bulb may go on and people will rethink the issue before publishing the mushy data. I am not in the teachers camp nor the school district camp – I am in the camp of the students and trying to determine how the data could be best used appropriately to the value of improving education and student outcomes.

First of all, I keep seeing the word correlation but not causality.  If a person is trying to obtain their PhD at a reputable university, correlation is not considered causality and so, not quite a tight case. The misuse of this word is important in evaluating research and so the lack of seeing the word causality was the first warning flag this was not a circus coming through town, rather a disaster looking for a cliff to launch off of – quickly. I am supporting this with the following out take of The Wall Street Journal:

In a paper last year, University of California, Berkeley economist Jesse Rothstein showed that there is a strong correlation between teachers who score well on these value-added measures one year and how much their students gained the prior year. That implies that teachers who do well in these systems are benefiting from favorable classroom assignments.

 I started thinking about how many lawsuits would begin to clog the courts from now until eternity dealing with any teacher who received tenure and then was booted (or politely asked to leave for the good of the organization in the case of charter schools) based on an accumulation of test data being published in the L.A. Times AND the number of harrassment, libel, etc. suits.  Although I find Michelle Rhees one of the least promising aspects in public  education, at the very least she did not go public with the teachers she fired – for whatever reasons. Kudos to Michelle for not going the extra step of adding insult to injury and, more than anything, avoiding crazy litigation.  There are going to be many principals, assistant superintendents, supes, school board members, etc. called into question for anyone fired after the fact and I would not want to be the person who had signed off on any paperwork stating a teacher was tenured and then, magically, NOT.   My best example includes Principal Suzie Oh and teacher Karen Caruso at Third Street School in Los Angeles.

It seems as I research this issue, everyone, including teachers, is in agreement to use the data for good purposes and many people are worried about the correlation with lack of causation to the point they do not believe individual teachers should be identified publicly.  My own alma mater, Teachers College at Columbia University, funded the project but would not get involved in the analysis….that was odd to me yet also another warning about mis-interpreting data and being the university caught up in the clap trap.

I could not find inciteful comments from any of the big and reputable education schools/education departments - Stanford, the Ivy League, University of Wisconsin, University of Washington, etc.   Amazingly, the charter schools which feast on data have also seemed to step from the fray by making no comments. It would seem to me The Los Angeles Times could get one education contingent on board other than economists (especially since Freakonomics is now a movie) before they become the Lost Angeles Times from the union outrage.

I have now read numerous teacher comments, opinions issued by various key players (all noted in my post tags and the affiliations of the individuals I found in print) and talked with my teacher colleague friends and my own consensus is, be careful what you wish for.  LAUSD may see the data as the best way to clean house and start over while I see something akin to a witch hunt (witch hunts NEVER turn out well according to history).  Publicly shaming teachers is most likely in violation of something regarding confidentiality as the names of students from their classes can be brought into play, and I would not want to see that, however, the courts would.  The can of worms for that issue could get very ugly.

Yes, the data potentially has many beneficial aspects and it can put the whole school district on notice, as a whole entity.  The data can focus laser attention on specific schools and specific grades.  Whatever else the data is used for in the realm of public humiliation so principals, parents, school districts and so on have scape goats in the post NCLB country we inhabit, it does not bode well.  Better to re-run the data and find some causality before going public and destroy the many lives of the very people who only a mere two years ago were slated to get help in improving their practice.   The visual of the ‘frog in the blender’ – the frog’s back against the container and the claws hanging on to the edge while the blade whizzes about is what comes to mind.

Update 10 November 2010: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/10/education/10teacher.html?_r=1&hpw

“Who got the ‘F’? L.A. Times,” chanted the crowd, which was made up mostly of students, teachers and parents from Miramonte Elementary School, where Mr. Ruelas taught fifth grade.

Although the above statement is rhetorical in nature, it bears thought – was it the school principal who failed in adequately coaching Mr. Ruelas?  Was it the HR department for hiring him in the first place? Was it the school board for allowing the LA Times to publish such gut wrenching, anguishing data OR was it the parents of the students who failed to succeed due to bad parenting? 

We will never know how many students in the class Mr. Ruelas taught were poorly parented and failing Grade 5 for reasons other than his ability as teacher - that data is secretly and securely locked away to protect the underage children.  What we do know is Mr. Ruelas was being held accountable to undo approximately 10 years of bad parenting and potentially five years of bad teaching prior to his arrival on the scene.   There is no other name for this than harrassment. LAUSD and The LA Times ‘failed’ in their professionalism in order to grab public attention.

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Tests, Tests, Tests and More Tests – Results??? Who Knows….

October 4, 2009 at 22:34 (Education Observations, Take Aways)
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/article?f=/c/a/2009/09/15/MNOU19N6G8.DTL

update: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/nyregion/16gap.html?_r=1&hpw

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/05/business/economy/05view.html?hpw

This blog was started three weeks ago when I first captured the headlines.  I needed time to process what it was about the article that was necessarily disturbing, discomforting and revealing of how little the data in education seems to point in a meaningful direction.

At the same time this article was written, I had just begun reading the book The Black Swan by Nassim Nicholas Taleb, ISBN 978-0-1410-3459-1.  What I began to realize is that the test  results, while based on PAST notions of what children need to learn to be successful, are not predictive in a linear fashion of student success or even a reasonable measure of progress towards college.

If, as is pointed out in The Black Swan,  this type of data that is based on bell curve scenarios is not a quality predictive indicator, why do we persist in using it and what do we hope to obtain from the data?  If we are looking for a predictive indicator, we will most certainly be let down.  If we are looking for a measure of individual success, we will be even more let down as student learning is not linear, rather it occurs in bursts as the brain acquires enough experiences to process the over all schema.  If we are looking for qualitative measures to substantiate what we do as educators, we are applying narrative, retrospective distortion and Platonifying (over evaluating  factual information) and we will find exactly what we are seeking through interpretation.

This, in my mind, does not mean we should immediately stop all testing of students or using tests as an evaluative technique, but it should not be the exacting measure of all success or failure as indicated in the case example of Malcolm X Academy in San Francisco.   ‘

What I am understanding about myself is that I most definitely believe in Black Swans, know they exist and although we try to plan around them, realize we are victims of the perception that we can avoid what we don’t know is possible.  It is this very part of myself that quite possibly drives others crazy, much in the same way Mr. Taleb explains it in his book.

If tests are the end all of predictive value, there needs to be more than a correlation in the evidence and yet, that is all there is at this time.  I have yet to see conclusive evidence (even by the most hard core believers out there – charter schools such as KIPP and Aspire) which supports test scores translating into something such as the ability to complete/graduate college.  There are so many black swans for students who come from poverty that even the best education can not guarantee success in college – nor should that be the only outcome of an education (thank you Bill Gates). No, Bill Gates was not poor, however, he did not finish college.

There are no studies which definitively indicate a college degree will help you obtain more money during your life time, be rich, be famous, be popular.  The studies I have read indicate there is greater potentiality/possibility for some one to earn more money over their lifetime by having higher education (the higher you go, potentially the more money you can obtain).   All of this is in naught as I have close friends with a PhD who do not have the earning potential they should right now as as it is cheaper to hire a lecturer than a bona fide PhD person to place on tenure track.  I have friends who have taken a royal bath with the fall out of Wall Street even though they have an Ivy Education, including MBA degrees.  There are other friends of mine who were or had been doing moderately well except for the housing mortgage meltdown.  Most of the friends who were ensnared in this debacle would have been fine if they could wait out 10 or 15 years for the economy to right itself and housing to regain momentum instead of moving for a job.  Each item I wrote about in the last four sentences was a Black Swan none of us saw coming when we were undergrads or graduate students.

Which means, all those great grades we  (the people talked about above – and they know who they are if they are reading this blog) obtained in elementary, middle and high school, the SAT’s, GRE’s, etc. were never predictive of our success, rather all those grades and scores were predictive of our future potential.

So, my question remains, what do the results mean?  How should we use these test results to improve education? How should we deliver tests (multiple choice/written, etc.) to obtain results with more predictive value?  Can testing provide predictive value?  The questions are endless.  All I know is education has become something completely counterintuitive to what we know from Piaget, Montessori, etc.   If we really want results, we need to be more longitudinal in our thinking and cope up to the Black Swans out there which will always change the penultimate outcome of our best written and delivered lessons.

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Michelle Rhee And Anomaly Theory

June 16, 2009 at 04:11 (Education Observations, What might this person(s) be thinking?)
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/13/AR2009061302073.html

<a href=”http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anomaly”>anomaly</a>

Based on what I can gleen from a few different views of anomaly on various dictionary and dictionary/thesaurus websites, what occurred during the last two years of Michelle Rhee’s reign is, in her view “not normal”.  Interestingly, any teacher would have told her to actually expect the problems which occurred, had she only asked.  Any teacher with 10 years experience would have stated that there are bound to be pitfalls and most likely elucidate what they expected the pitfalls to be and how to possibly avoid the problems.

A person who is a reformer should seek counsel from the best and brightest about how to transform something (aka-damage control in the corporate world) so entrenched. Clearly her decisions were based upon her  own ideas or she would have graciously indicated who she had cultivated relationships with and thus consulted. Furthermore, whomever she consulted with, if they are ‘hiding’ in the wings, should have seen the what if scenario and did everything in their power to stanch the flow of problems by ANTICIPATING the problems.

Ms. Rhee clearly has good intentions.  She wants to change a school system and restore dignity and learning to children. It is unfortunate she is going about this in a way which is causing such dismay among so many. I believe the saying is ‘you only get one chance to make a good impression’. Much of what I read in the above noted article made me think of new undergrads, not quite ready for grad school but they know it all and are out to conquer the world.  Students who have completed graduate school, most especially in education, tend to be consensus builders and do the research/work necessary to turn the ship instead of trying to right the wheel while in the middle of the ocean in a storm.  Education is not, happily, a zero sum game.  Ms. Rhee has turned it into a battlefield – winner take all.

Even three consecutive years of test scores demonstrates nothing.  A longitudinal study takes 10 or more years to eradicate the anomalies by obtaining more data.  Even people with basic stats background can see through the fog of little data.   Unless Ms. Rhee has a great marketing firm who can put spin on an object with great inertia, the test scores will not mean doodle.  Everyone can have an opinion or interpret the test scores, much in the way everyone has a mouth.

 I feel sorry for the educators and principals who have to deal with Ms. Rhee’s ego.  I feel even more sorry for the children who have become the pawns in the experiment.

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Teacher Satisfaction Up? What Drugs Does Mr. Kress Take?

April 20, 2009 at 00:19 (Education Observations, What might this person(s) be thinking?)
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Job Satisfaction Among Teachers Said To Have Peaked In 2008.

 

In an opinion piece for the Dallas Morning News (4/17), Sandy Kress, an attorney and former senior adviser to President George W. Bush on No Child Left Behind, writes, “Teachers today are more satisfied, optimistic and encouraged than at any time during the last 25 years,” results of the 2008 MetLife Survey of the American Teacher show. The latest results illustrate “a picture in stark contrast to the fearful account used by some special interests for political advantage,” according Kress. For instance, “in 2008, a full six years after No Child Left Behind was signed into law, the number of teachers who were ‘very satisfied’ with teaching as a career reached an all-time high of 62 percent. This is up from 40 percent in 1984.” In addition, 75 percent of respondents said that they likely would “advise a young person to pursue a career in teaching,” up from 45 percent in 1984.

The MetLife Survey of the American Teacher, conducted by Harris Interactive since 1984, tracks the opinions and outlook of teachers, principals and students. The survey’s latest report, “Past, Present and Future,” details interviews of 1,000 teachers and 502 principals across the nation.

MetLife has no agenda in education politics. It has simply put out the facts – objectively.

Uh, let me dig out my college stats book…..something appears contrived with the stats represented in this article.  Caveat emptor!

I will begin with the obvious and work my way to obtuse. 

Were the same 1,000 teachers interviewed year over year? Was this a credible longitudinal study?  How many of the 1,000 teachers were idealist first year teachers and how many of the 1,000 teachers had made it past five years of teaching?  Do the stats hold true for inner city teachers as for urban teachers? Were any of the teachers at private schools or were they all at public schools? What grades did the 1,000 people interviewed teach?  How many of the teachers interviewed had tenure? Where were the 1,000 teachers selected from and why such a small sample? Can this research be verified?

 One thousand teachers interviewed out of  x total teachers in America.   From 1984 to 2008, the PERCENTAGE of “very satisfied” with the career choice of teaching went from 40 to 62%  This means that anything below very satisfied (satisfied, not satisfied, extremely dissatisfied) went from 60% to 38%.   So, reframing this, anything over10% of your work force not merely hitting satisfied would be a concern.  What is the composite breakdown of the other categories? How was the percentage change calculated?

Teachers in 1984 recommended students pursue the career of eduction at a rate of 45% and in 2008, 75% advised students to pursue education.  Net change of 30%.  Sadly, 25% would not recommend pursuing a career in education – what might the reason be for that?

 Teachers who rate schools’ academic standards as “excellent” – 53 percent in 2008 from 26 percent in 1984.   That means almost 50% (47% rounded) do not view the academic standards as “excellent”.  This means about 1/2 of those interviewed believe the standards are excellent. Albeit, it is an improvement, however continuing to have about 50% who do not see something as excellent also tells you something.

Out of 1,000 teachers, 54% of the interviewed teachers report that at least 3/4 of their students more prepared for their lessons  an arrive able to tackle grade-level material. In 1992, this figure was 44 percent.  This means the perception of teachers ‘feeling’ 3/4 of their students are more prepared went up 10% points.  It also means that 46% of teachers interviewed believe LESS than 3/4 of their students are more prepared for their lessons and arrive able to tackle grade-level material.  If I round 46% up, it is almost 50%.  So, in this case approximtely 50% of teachers on either side of the issue perceive 3/4 of their students to be prepared for their work and able to tackle grade-level material….so, some where from 1/4 to who knows what number (remember, only about 54% of the teachers perceive 3/4 of their students are on target) are not……this would explain why teaching is so difficult.  I would like to add that if one were to look at API scores and the sales of programs to improve literacy, there is no way 3/4 of the students in the U.S. are adequately ready to perform at grade level.

Teachers feel better supported by their schools, with 83 percent rating the availability of teaching materials and supplies as “good” or “excellent,” up from 64 percent in 1984.   Since the teaching materials available are not listed, does this include things such as Read 180, REACH and other literacy programs? Does this include pre-packaged kits for science such as FOSS and anything from a text book company (essentially cookbooks for teaching for new teachers).  Again, looking at sales from various textbook companies and companies with scientifically proven materials, it would seem we are not seeing the high end education materials necessary for students to think beyond  PROFICIENT.  Proficient is the mark of test scores which also means a student is on grade level and does not need to be ‘pushed’ further (also, improving test scores of a student who is proficient does not make standardized test scores go up as much as a student below proficient so most materials are geared to students below proficient).  I would like to know of the teachers interviewed, how many are past their first five years of teaching which is the time period when most teachers begin to get past the kit form of delivery for teaching instruction and really get creative.

Schools’ physical facilities also garner higher marks, as 79 percent of teachers believe their schools’ facilities are “good” or “excellent’.  Again, this means 21% of teachers believe the school facilities they teach in is LESS THAN GOOD.    Are the less than good school facilities in poor communities?  Were the teachers who were interviewed  aware of what good and great facilities look like?   My own recent experience provided middle school facilities which were no where near safe nor appropriate to teach middle school science at grade level (including no fire extinguisher IN the classroom).  There are schools I have subbed in which are marginally better than the schools I taught in during Peace Corps in a third world country – and this is in the bay area, not rural communities.   Of the 20% of the schools which are not good or excellent, what is the story?  In addition,  is this an indicator that the 1,000 teachers interviewed may not have been inner city teachers?  I am not convinced LAUSD has working phones in every classroom yet.

Parental and community support has earned higher marks recently. Teachers believing support was “good” or “excellent” increased from 54 percent in 1984 to 67 percent today.  Again, the converse is 33% of teachers interviewed believe community and parental support is less than a minimum of good.  While it is up 13 percentage points, it is not indicating our communities are anywhere near on board with parental and community support of education in general.

My final comment would be this study does not indicate the parameters of the teachers interviewed, including:

Age of teachers

Years of experience

Location – inner city, urban, rural

Type of school – public, charter, private

MetLife has no agenda in education politics. It has simply put out the facts – objectively.

Without this information, this article, at best, provides low level correlation. Objective?  How about objectionable evidence for FACT….. Evidence to me that this is ‘spin’ by SandyKress as opposed to reality.  If this is an indication of how insurance companies represent factual data (this is not even an actuarial table), it may explain the skyrocketing costs of insurance – you can spin any data to your choice of interpretation.  

Mr. Kress would be well served to align himself with a major university which does educational research so his study could be more believeable.  At a minimum, I would not want a person such as himself being a senior advisor since it does not seem he adequately passed college stats – or he truly believes the American public is stupid.  With an advisor such as this, who relies on companies such as Harris Interactive for data, one leaves themselves open to all manner of scrutiny – the least of which is my opinion.

This was found on 4/22/09 

Education Week (4/22, Sawchuk) reports that “the nation’s oft-criticized systems for evaluating the quality of its educator workforce are poised to receive increased scrutiny, thanks to an Obama administration plan to require school districts to disclose how many teachers perform well or poorly.” The guidelines, issued earlier this month by the Education Department in conjunction with the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, require states “to report on the number and percentage of teachers and principals scoring at each level on local districts’ evaluation instruments. States must also disclose whether the evaluation tools take student performance into account.” According to some experts, “the initiative’s success will depend on the administration’s follow-up steps — including the metrics the Education Department sets for reporting evaluation data, and what steps it expects states and districts to take with the resulting data.”

Stimulus Guidelines Require Districts To Report Teacher Performance Data.

http://www.teachermagazine.org/tm/articles/2009/06/03/060309tln_marshall.h21.html?tkn=WTUFI3g9E7qTrkw%252FwKuOYa%252F29zCdA8FrV6nY

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/05/business/economy/05view.html?hpw

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College For Certain….Or Not

April 12, 2009 at 20:01 (Education Observations)
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Being all consumptive about data (heck, I am a fan of Edward Tufte), I have been puzzling over the following conundrum and look forward to input from others to assist me in extrapolating meaning:

Most charter schools have a tenant, pillar, strong point which relates to college attendance.  Generally speaking it is a broad statements about students graduating their high school and going to college. The statement is broad enough to include attendance at community colleges as well as larger public and private colleges/universities in the U.S. and abroad.  The statement is generally broad enough to make one believe that students not only graduate high school and attend college, but the student completes college.   Now, I admit, my last sentence may be far broader in interpretation than what charter schools actually mean and I am sorry for the broadness of my statement (which makes me concerned about how many other people got sucked into ‘believing’ college graduation is part of attending college). I would   be willing to accept attending college meaning part time, at a community college for one year with grades of C or better as meeting the goal of college – some college is always better than none.  With all of these interpretations out there, I have tried and successfully failed to find the college data from any major charter school.

First off, let me state that I point blank wrote e-mails to the people involved who would ‘have access’ to the data most readily in hopes these people would have some one from their IT department put up a posting on their respective web sites.  See blog     http://whereiskatima.wordpress.com/2009/03/25/current-charter-school-data-which-i-seek/                    I have attempted all reasonable methods of obtaining the data, short of going to the actual schools and looking at yearbooks and then trying to match up Facebook pages, etc.  I am not keen on violating personally privacy where names are being used.  These are the web sites I have checked in news and data:  http://www.kipp.org/, http://www.greendot.org/, http://www.aspirepublicschools.org/, http://www.caminonuevo.org/,  and http://www.cde.ca.gov/ds/si/cs/ap1/imagemap.aspx  where I went through and plucked out various charter schools which provide Gr 9-12 education and have been open 5 or more years, indicating they have one group of high school gradutes in college at this time.

My second statement is the following: If I were the person in charge of a charter school organization where I had been using the marketing of my program as higher test scores and college attendance, I can assure you I would have data posted. I would indicate number of graduates per year and follow through with the students who wished to stay in contact with their high school alma mater, going so far as to have links to the various students blogs, Linkedin accounts, anything which was appropriate for public consumption as I would want the not yet graduated students at my school to regularly observe the success of their peers and see what can be achieved.  I would track numbers of students who completed community college, college programs taking four and five years and which students were applying for higher ed such as M.D., J.D., various masters programs, Peace Corps, etc.  I would stay in contact with the parents of said students as most of them may have been the first in the family to graduate high school, never mind the first to attend college.  There would be  an active post of $ funnelled to these various students in the form of grants, scholarships, etc. (Ex:  three students have a total of $40k /year in scholar athlete money from public colleges) since these students have much to be proud of in their success of higher ed.   While it would be great to break it down by race, age, etc., I believe that is a bit too personal and gives away more information than is necessary – that is strictly for the academics. By having this data, I would be demonstrating that I support what I have stated as my charter school(s) success stories.

My third statement regards parents/students of charter schools:  It seems odd that the very people charter schools are supposed to benefit are not seeking this data, especially when going to enroll their children at a charter school. This would be data, along with API scores that I would ask for simply because this is what the charter school is marketing to me.

So, I have a few things that I must now assume as I am lacking in data: (1) The charter schools did not collect the data. (2) The charter schools collected the data, however, it is so dismal, it is not worth actually posting and it might in some way counter indicate the API successes at various schools. (3) The data is not important unless parents ask for it….even though my tax dollars fund these public schools and I would like to see the return on my tax dollars as being better than the regular public school around the corner which is charged with the same accomplishment – get kids to and through college. (4) The data is astoundingly great and there are statisticians working on it to make the presentations easy to follow (Edward Tufte style). 

Other than those four choices, I am hard pressed to know where the College For Certain data might be and when it will be shared with the public.

Please,  forward me data if you have found it and/or share your reasonable ideas .  Remember, these schools will need to present some data to obtain the second tranche of federal funds for education so the ideas presented have to be doable.  I would love to know that all charter schools are successful in changing the face of education, unfortunately there is no data to support a change from any other public school.

This was found on 4/22/09

The New York Times (4/22, A14, Dillon) reports that while “it is no surprise that more students drop out of high school in big cities than elsewhere,” a new “nationwide study shows the magnitude of the gap: the average high school graduation rate in the nation’s 50 largest cities was 53 percent, compared with 71 percent in the suburbs.” The report by the nonprofit America’s Promise Alliance titled Closing the Graduation Gap also shows that “some big city school districts,” such as Philadelphia Public Schools, “that have worked to improve their graduation rates have made significant progress since the middle of the last decade.” The graduation rate in Philadelphia schools increased “to 62 percent in 2005 from 39 percent in 1995, the report said.”

        “In all, 13 cities saw double-digit improvement in their graduation rates, according to the study,” the AP (4/22) adds. In addition to Philadelphia, Tucson, AZ, and Kansas City, MO, “made huge gains over the past decade, boosting graduation rates by 20 percentage points or more, the study found.” Still, “urban schools…have a long way to go. On average, only half the kids graduate in the 50 biggest cities, the report said. Those cities are home to half the country’s population and are driving a national graduation rate that is estimated at 70 percent.”

        According to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution (4/22, Torres), “The report based its findings on data ending in 2005. Researchers calculated graduation rates using a formula that tracks the four steps students must take to earn a diploma on time — three grade-to-grade promotions until, after grade 12, graduation.”

 

Study Shows Large Gap In Graduation Rates Between Urban, Suburban Schools.

Updated 4/30/09  

The New York Times (4/30, A22, Medina) reports that nearly “six years after a lawsuit forced” New York City “to pledge to keep better track of students who leave public schools without graduating, the number leaving high schools has continued to climb, according to a report to be released Thursday by the public advocate’s office.” In 2007, more “than 20 percent of students from the class of 2007 were discharged — the term for students who leave the school system without graduating” — and 7.5 percent of those students were ninth-graders.” Comparatively, “17.5 percent from the class of 2000″ were discharged, with 3.5 percent of those being ninth-graders. The Times notes that “students can be classified as discharged for a number of benign reasons, including a transfer to a private school or a move out of the city.”

Number Of Discharged New York City High-Schoolers Increases.

http://www.teachermagazine.org/tm/articles/2009/06/03/060309tln_marshall.h21.html?tkn=WTUFI3g9E7qTrkw%252FwKuOYa%252F29zCdA8FrV6nY

 

Rigorous Curriculum, Curriculum Mastery Seen As Predictors Of College Readiness.

Philip Cicero asks in New Jersey’s Newsday (6/25), “Will the high school diploma issued to the 2009 graduates give them any chance for success in college and the workplace?” According to Cicero, “There is alarming evidence suggesting that the success of many of today’s graduates may have little to do with their future achievements in college or at work.” The reason for this, he wrote, is that their learning was based on “a very basic curriculum focusing on minimum competencies — one essentially being driven by the mandates of the federal No Child Left Behind law.” The predictors of college readiness, Cicero contends, are “a rigorous curriculum” and curriculum mastery. A lack of both “may help explain why many students leaving high school need remediation upon entering post-secondary institutions.” Concluding, Cicero wrote that “instead of focusing on basic competency,” policymakers should seek to “provide all students with a rigorous and meaningful curriculum that is relevant to their post-secondary choices.”

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Current Charter School Data Which I Seek

March 25, 2009 at 15:31 (Education Observations)
Tags: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

There’s a telling description of genius by Arthur Schopenhauer, the German philosopher of romantic pessimism…..”Talent is like the marksman who hits a target which others cannot reach; genius is like the marksman who hits a target, as far as which others cannot even see.’ ……But if ordinary mortals cannot spot the bull’s eye, how do they know whether it has been hit?   An excerpt from The New Yorker – Anthony Gottleib’s Book Review of “A Nervous Splendor” regarding the Wittgenstein Family. P. 74  Apri 6, 2009

This quote appealed to me as the seeming genius behind charter schools is the ability to masque if (1) was there a target (2) was the target really hit?   Based on the lack of supporting evidence,  I am not sure if there was ever more than a methaphorical target (API Scores) and I don’t know if the true target has been hit as there is no quantitative data one way or the other.

 

 

http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/inside-school-research/   This is a related blog about “what works” in education as reported.

Please note, this was added on 4/2/2009, AFTER my asking for the data from the two charter school organizations below.  Hopefully Item A will respond – they need to one way or the other for more education money. Please note, names of people, schools and organizations have been intentionally removed to avoid any issues considered libelous.   These are questions I am asking as I attended Teachers College at Columbia University in NYC for graduate school and was taught to ask questions, collect data.  I am intrigued by what is not printed as opposed to what is printed since charter schools can pay for marketing.   The avoidance of presenting data (when organizations state they are data driven) would indicate (A) the data is not being collected (B) the data would not fit into the paradigm of what the organization wishes to portray.   Since President Obama and Arne Duncan are pushing for more charter schools, it stands to reason they want as much data as possible to evaluate in determining what makes a successful charter school.  In my own mind, API is insufficient for any  college prep school to claim success.  If a school is indeed following its original intention of college prep, it should create a situation where more students attend college and more students complete college.  Any other public school is held to these same standards and it is the generally accepted domain of public education to adequately prepare students for college and completing college.

The New York Times (4/2, A15, Dillon) reports, “Secretary of Education Arne Duncan told the nation’s governors on Wednesday that in exchange for billions of dollars in federal education aid provided under the economic stimulus law, he wants new information about the performance of their public schools, much of which could be embarrassing.” The second phase of funding to be dispersed later this year “comes in a $54 billion fiscal stabilization fund for states.” To receive a portion of the funding for their states, “governors must pledge to improve teacher quality, raise academic standards, intervene in failing schools more effectively and carry out other education initiatives.” The data required to show that “they are carrying out those pledges” include “Student math and reading scores on local tests, as well as on the National Assessment of Education Progress.”

        States Must Report On Teacher Quality To Receive Some Stabilization Funds. “As part of the teacher-quality assurance states must fulfill to receive fiscal-stabilization money…the department plans to demand that states report for each district the number and percentage of teachers and principals scoring at each performance level on local teacher- and principal-evaluation instruments,” Education Week (4/2, Sawchuk, Robelen) adds. Furthermore, states also must “be prepared to connect student-achievement data to individual teachers, and to track students from high school through college graduation.” Education Week points out that both requirements conflict with the efforts of teachers’ unions, which “have successfully lobbied legislatures to outlaw teacher-student data linkages in states such as California,” and with some states that “prohibit the sharing of data across systems for privacy purposes.”

 

Item A (e-mailed on 3/24/2009) 

Dear —— and ——-,

I would like to get some clarification on the following:  “I think about the fact that our first seniors to graduate ——— will graduate from college this spring, I know we have the will, skill and passion to rise to the challenges ahead.”

(1) What was the size of the graduating class when the first seniors graduated ———-while —————- was Principal?

(2) How many students in numbers are still in college today?

(3) How many will graduate Spring 2009?

(4) How many students are anticipated to graduate in Spring 2010 as I know it is more common currently to do college in 5 years.

The reason I ask is that I know ———- is very data driven and it would seem this is something you would want to share publicly. 

Item B (e-mailed on 3/24/09)

Dear ——-and ———,

I have been following the ——– phenomenon for quite some time. It occurred to me that there should be data surrounding students who have started college and students which have graduated.

I have been unable to find any of this data on the web site or through ancillary research.

If the ——— ———- began in 19– with Grade - students, that means the first graduating class would have been 20–.  These students would have now completed college and there would be another cohort following and one to graduate this spring.

(1) How many students were in the first graduating class?

(2) How many students (in numbers) graduated college from the first cohort? the second?

(3) How many students are anticipated to graduate Spring 2009?

I realize API scores are an important data measure, however, it has always seemed to me that the true test of a college prep charter school is the number of students who complete college and being able to compare that number with the surrounding district, county, state and country rates.

Thank you for helping me with the research.

As of  3/26/09, there has been no response from the CEO and/or home offices of either charter school organiztion.

As of 3/30/09, there has been no response from CEO and/or home office for Item A above. I e-mailed a second request.  As of 4/1/09, there has been no response from Item A above.   As of 4/5/09, there has been no response from Item A above so I am submitting a third request.  On 4/5/09, I received a response from one of the two people in Item A asking me to no longer e-mail them, they no longer worked at __________.  I apologized as they are still listed on the website of _________ and I then forwarded the chain of e-mail to another person on the website.

On 3/27/09, the group know as Item B above responded with a professional request for what I wanted to use the data for and how it would be used.  Since I responded on 3/28/2009, no further contact has been made and no data has been given to me. Please see the responses and NOTE:  all names of people and specific identifying organizations have been removed to protect myself from a libel lawsuit by requesting this information.

 

APPLICATION FOR

REVIEW OF RESEARCH PROPOSAL

 

 

 

1.       Proposed Title of the Study:   

 This study is informal, although I feel that it would be valuable to use the data publicly.  I have been keeping a blog and put my request for  data in the blog   http://whereiskatima.wordpress.com/2009/03/25/current-charter-school-data-which-i-seek/    , although, truth be told, I have removed all names of people, organization, schools, etc. due to believing my questions would raise the ire of      and create a lawsuit.

It  seems reasonable to me that this is a MAJOR portion of what  is about and so the data exists somewhere, and I would like a copy for my own evaluation as a public school teacher.

 

2.       Principal Investigator(s): Include the person’s name, mailing address, e-mail, and telephone. If there is any affiliation with, please note that here. (If this person is not the main contact for the study, please give name and complete information for contact person.) Please attach CV(s) for the principal investigator(s). 

 

I am the principal investigator as an individual citizen of the U.S. who pays taxes in the State of CA and the U.S. and my taxes are used to fund a portion of the ADA which  is given as a public charter school.  My name is                          . You may review my Linked In page. 

 

3.       Affiliation/Research Unit: Name of affiliated university and program, research group or other organization.   None – this is my own personal interest.

 

4.       Co-Investigators and Affiliations: List others who will be working on the study, and their affiliation(s). None – this is my own personal interest.

 

5.       Background and Purpose: Please provide a clear statement of the key question this study seeks to answer. Provide relevant background, including references/citations where applicable. Please do not attach a full research proposal, but simply summarize the key question and background of the study. The            will request the full proposal if necessary.

 

If there is  data to support what I am thinking, I am interested in applying for a PhD program at a major education university.  Having taught for a charter school, I am evaluating what did and did not work.  While I have felt strongly that charter schools are valuable enterprises for educational change, I am alarmed at the lack of data when these institutions, particularly                              are DATA DRIVEN.   I am trying to understand what myself and other teacher colleagues, who have left charter schools, are missing out on  understanding the charter school promise of fulfillment to get more students through college by providing them with an exceptional pre-college education which prepares them adequately for the undertaking of college success.  College for certain means to me, completion of college, not merely arriving at the school.  If  charter schools are keeping their promise to America, we, as a nation, should be seeing the success rate of student graduation from college based on cohorts which attended various charter schools.

 

6.       Background and Expertise of Study Team: Please describe the background and expertise of the research team.  I have an MA from Teachers College at Columbia University in NYC and a CA Teaching Credential.

 

7.       Study Funding: If funding is required, who will be providing financial support? None. I would be pleased to share my evaluation of the data with              .

 

8.       Potential Benefits: Discuss the positive outcomes you hope to achieve with this study. In addition, please discuss any ways in which       could learn from or benefit from the findings of this study. For example, how could your findings help        improve teaching and learning in        schools? 

 

I believe that showing more than a correlation to getting high API scores and getting to college is needed to demonstrate charter schools as successful education change ventures.  Thus far, charter schools are not receiving the kind of press they initially did and are not presenting data other than API scores as their measure of success. The API scores are often a misrepresentation of reality due to high student and faculty turnover, which leads to the idea of charter schools being great filters, but not  actually accomplishing their original goals.   I have been following           and anything  published  on their website as official data, as well as following other charter school web sites and the data which they release.  I would like to understand how my tax dollars are improving education, both as a citizen and as a credentialed teacher. There is value for  and the public in seeing what works, what is  a correlation and what does not work in order to fix our public education system.

 

9.       Potential Areas of Concern: What are the obstacles you can foresee to the successful completion of this project?  Charter school organizations can afford marketing and do not want to release the “data” as it  could demonstrate something which is counter to their own marketing.  People will be interested in my research which could cause         and other charter organizations to have to become more transparent with the data they release publicly on their websites.

 

10.   Project Timeline: Please provide a timeframe for this project, with as many details as possible, including when anticipate results and findings will be available.

I would like to finish my blog as soon as possible and keep a public update available so others can read what I am finding out.

 

11. Research Methodology:  Please describe how the research will be conducted, providing the following:

  • Research sites: Identify each proposed site where research will be conducted.  Thus far, my reading of data on public websites and public information.
  • Subjects: Describe who you want to study, such as teachers, students, parents, and where they are located   Graduation from college rates of students which attended       schools.

 

  • Nature of the involvement of the research subjects: Describe how you plan to gather data from your research subjects. For example, are you planning interviews, surveys, focus groups, etc.?  Obtaining the numbers from      .
  • Time requirement: Estimate the time commitment required for your subjects, by year and over the course of your study. Are you planning to compensate subjects for their time?  I believe the data I am requesting of       is public access and should not need to pay        .
  • Other research methods to be used: List school or classroom observations, and any other data collection processes proposed for the study.  Evaluating the number of students from similar schools K-12 in the district, county and state which attended college (4 years, 5 years, never).
  • Other data to be requested from                 : If you will be requesting any additional data from                     , please describe that here.
  • Methodology rationale: Please describe how the selected methodology will best allow you to answer your key research question.  The raw numbers of students which graduate           schools each year since inception, attend college, graduate in 4 years, 5 years or never).

 

12.  Required Consents: Describe any consents required for study participants.  None – just a data release from       . I do not need names. Specifically, I would like data by cohort starting at a        school, graduation (4 year, 5 year, never) from college, m/f, portion of population stipulated in charter school materials indicating the students were low income/poverty students during time at          and upon going to college.

 

13.    Additional Assistance from          : If you anticipate that you will need any assistance from                  beyond data requested above, please describe this in detail here (i.e., sending out email to potential participants, etc.).  None.

 

 

14. Brief Description for Proposed Participants: Provide a brief paragraph that could be used to explain your study and motivate potential research subjects to participate in it.  I do not believe this aspect applies to the release of data which I am requesting.

 

 

15.Publication/Presentation of Findings: If you anticipate that this research will be submitted for publication or presented to an audience, please provide as much information about this as possible, even if only preliminary.   My blog, as listed above and, should I attend graduate school, this would be a portion of my PhD, subject to all the necessary publication requirements of the university.

 

16.   Any other information: Is there anything else you would like to include to help understand the value of your study?  Being a strong supporter of President Obama and his value of transparent data, including where my tax dollars go, I feel this data is valuable to me and the public in demonstrating the positive change  and other charter school organizations (including Bill Gates, The Fisher Foundation, etc.) have provided in improving the educational process in America.

 

 

Side note/Update:

 

Education Week (3/31, Gewertz) reported, “Federal regulations have opened a door that allows schools to get credit under the No Child Left Behind Act for students who take longer than four years to earn a high school diploma.” Under “regulations issued last October” by then US Education Secretary Margaret Spellings, states can “apply for permission to use one or more ‘extended year’ rates alongside their respective four-year rates.” This “would allow the states to get some credit” under No Child Left Behind “for students who took five or more years to complete high school. U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan has not yet announced “whether he would change the regulations.” But he has said that limiting states to a four-year rate may “create some unintended consequences.” Education groups, meanwhile, “are trying to figure out a ‘next-generation’ accountability system that delivers the right pressure and credit to high schools, and the right opportunities to students.”

 

 

NCLB Rules Would Grant Schools Credit For Students Graduating Late.

Another side note:  http://www.ireport.com/ir-topic-stories.jspa?topicId=203607   I report -Are your schools all they could be?

School Improvement Data Tied To Second Round Of Stimulus Funding.

Updated 4/29/09 http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2009/04/29/30koretz_ep.h28.html?tkn=NVOFrov3C%2FZ3K6N23ailiNrQcSf4%2BT6T6jHI

 

Rigorous Curriculum, Curriculum Mastery Seen As Predictors Of College Readiness.

 

Philip Cicero asks in New Jersey’s Newsday (6/25), “Will the high school diploma issued to the 2009 graduates give them any chance for success in college and the workplace?” According to Cicero, “There is alarming evidence suggesting that the success of many of today’s graduates may have little to do with their future achievements in college or at work.” The reason for this, he wrote, is that their learning was based on “a very basic curriculum focusing on minimum competencies — one essentially being driven by the mandates of the federal No Child Left Behind law.” The predictors of college readiness, Cicero contends, are “a rigorous curriculum” and curriculum mastery. A lack of both “may help explain why many students leaving high school need remediation upon entering post-secondary institutions.” Concluding, Cicero wrote that “instead of focusing on basic competency,” policymakers should seek to “provide all students with a rigorous and meaningful curriculum that is relevant to their post-secondary choices.”

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/05/business/economy/05view.html?hpw

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Trying to find out why charter schools do not provide data/transparency

February 26, 2009 at 03:08 (Education Observations)
Tags: , , , , , , ,

I have been subbing in the bay area of N. California. Before I go out on assignment, I check the directions to get there (if I am not familiar with the area) and while I am on the website (many give directions better than our friends at MapQuest who have GPS and can not manage to give directions which are (a) logical and (b) get you there), I do a bit of a spin around….Information which I look for:

Who founded the school/organization?  When?

Who is on BOD?  Who is the principal (ed background), teachers (ed background)? Are there notes from the on campus meeting of parents, admin and teachers? When was the last meeting?

Test scores (particularly more than last year and this year) and analysis (I believe KIPP is the only charter school group that occassionally, at various schools, interpret the data on line)

News – is the news self generated as marketing or is the news based on an outside the school, legit ed institution using the school to improve educational practices and the data will be published in a professional journal?

Does the school offer anything different from high quality teachers, high expectations and every child to college , commitment (these items are the equivalent of getting  hot running water in your apartment – by law, it must be provided)?  In essence, I am looking to see how one charter school differentiates itself from the others, however, it would appear they all share the same bag of tricks – college pennants, showing graphs of student achievement (a whole other discussion), uniforms, rigid/strict rules and discipline (self discipline or time on task and behavioral discipline).

Is the charter school comparing itself to a “higher authority” i.e. state test data rather than stating the students at charter school X do better then kids in the district at a similar school. The reason I look for this is the fact that some districts are so “not in a good place” that the comparison is akin to McDonalds vs. Carls Jr. vs. Burger King vs. whatever other fast food place is out there and frankly, depending on when you take the picture of the data depends on which fast food place has better marketing, not better food, less calories, etc.  I would be absolutely impressed if charter schools, especially after four or five years in existence, could offer more then beating the school district.

Is the web site current (i.e. when was the last time they posted their financials, last news post – self fabricated or other wise)?  You would be amazed that schools within 50 miles of Silicon Valley and crazy high unemployment can not get websites updated.  One charter school group is using the same photos of students who are now on their way to college or darn close….

Does it appear parents are involved? Charter schools are suppossed to reach out to the parents and have a better/stronger community presence than the local regular public schools.

Is the school using Rev Foods or Sodexho as the food purveyor?

All of these (and many other) factors demonstrate if the charter school is, in even a small way, adhering to the glorius promises they make about their mission, values, pillars, etc. 

What is even more interesting, there seems to be a bit of a relationship to web site info and actual school site (self discipline of students and discipline for inappropriate behavior, how exhausted /harried the teachers appear, condition/carry through of school projects such as school garden).  I have yet to see anything truly different at a charter school than anything at a regular school.

I guess my skepticism would be related to the idea that charter schools were supposed to save education from its quick dive off the cliff.  As I talk to parents, even those who have children at a charter school, they can not explain, reasonably articulate what a charter school is or should deliver. These parents also can not explain why sending their kids to the regular neighborhood school and being involved  would be different from what is happening at the charter school. In fact, when I point out similarities, parents are not sure how to respond. It is as if some one shined a bit of light into the cave of secret “coded” dialogue  and the parents, for the first time, questions what is the what (to quote Dave Eggers).

 In doing a basic word search  regarding charter school success and successful charter schools and charter school successes, the following is all I found current (within 30 days).  It is also the time of year when schools are prepping for the big test and there is nothing noteworthy or newsworthy to teaching/studying to the test.

 

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oew-shaffer12feb12,0,938309.story

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/02/22/lessons_from_a_failed_charter_school/

There is a sign of hope about all of this and hopefully the unmanipulated, unmarketed truth will be set free:

http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/16124.html

Updated 4/29/09 http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2009/04/29/30koretz_ep.h28.html?tkn=NVOFrov3C%2FZ3K6N23ailiNrQcSf4%2BT6T6jHI

http://www.teachermagazine.org/tm/articles/2009/06/03/060309tln_marshall.h21.html?tkn=WTUFI3g9E7qTrkw%252FwKuOYa%252F29zCdA8FrV6nY

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